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Matching Microsoft On Interoperability
Microsoft’s concession to offer a so-called “browser ballot” in the European version of Windows 7 has been covered extensively. European buyers of Windows 7 will, except when the OEM has a separate deal, be presented with a choice of browsers, ordered by estimated market share. Microsoft has also released a less covered document [.doc] that extends the idea of a ballot to file formats in Office 14:
“Beginning with the release of Office 14, end users that purchase Microsoft’s Primary PC Productivity Applications in the EEA in both the OEM and retail channel will be prompted in an unbiased way to select default file format (from options that include ODF)…”
Microsoft hasn’t exactly been friendly to open standards in the past, but this is a serious concession that will, if properly implemented, change the balance of file formats.
As much as the FSF would like to continue framing Microsoft as the bad guy in every situation, they aren’t. The Microsoft of today is very different from the Microsoft of 5 years ago, and supporters of open standards should start to match their moves towards interoperability.
The best reaction to this news would be for OpenOffice.org and other prominent open-source desktop productivity applications to offer a file format ballot as well.This ballot would offer ODF, Microsoft’s .doc binary formats, and OOXML.
This proposal will, undoubtably, be contriversal. This move would have a number of benefits, though.
First, it offers more choice to users. Why shouldn’t I be able to choose to use Microsoft’s file formats if I prefer? In fact, I do use Microsoft’s older binary file formats most of the time, since it is essential that I am able to open files I create with unknown versions of Office when I don’t have my computer with me. I’m am completely in support of open-standards, but I am also in support of choice.
Second, matching Microsoft’s moves towards interoperability would cast free software advocates and users in a better light. Thanks to the FSF’s childish campaigns (see the instructions) and the blatent FUD of unnamed anti-Novell sites, free software advocates are usually viewed as borderline insane extremists. If OpenOffice publically recognized Microsoft’s positive steps and offered their own ballot, it would help remedy this situation. (The FSF does a lot of great work and, as he is fond of pointing out, without some of Stallman’s work we wouldn’t have Linux as we have it today. That doesn’t excuse anything, though.)
Free software advocates can’t just continue to pretend Microsoft is a big evil corporation. Perhaps they are, but they’re a lot less evil and a little less big than they used to be. Instead of dismissing every move Microsoft takes as a trap, let’s admit it was a good move and thank them for it.
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I always wondered why Windows Catalog (Have you ever used it?) next to the Windows Update icon in the Start Menu doesn’t contain any free applications but just commercial ones ..
It’s like selling a product with ads in it, how would you like that? I think that is the primary reason that Windows Messenger is still included in every Windows XP release, they simply cannot ship their OS with software that contain ads.
Microsoft will never be in it for interoperability. The only reason they have made any steps like this is because they were forced to by lawsuits or by users demanding it. It’s 100% about the money, and if they can pretend to play nice for 5 min and boost there bottom line they will do a half ass attempt of it. I say screw Microsoft, let them burn in flames all the way down, and their stock holders too.
Um, completely sidestepping the point of apologizing for and defending Microsoft (and they’re a big company, I assume they can take care of themselves)…
What more could we be doing to extend interoperability? FOSS is open, documented, and standardized through and through for the most part. We’ve bent over backwards to provide interoperability. MS just submitted that kernel patch for Hyper-V a while back, which shows they know how to use the GPL when it suits them.
What aren’t we doing?
Wimp. MS formats have never been documented openly and completely.
Only requirement to have EU off back is do that so others can have compatibility with the format you use.
IE is also guilty of breaking this and having incorrectly documented features.
MS will ballot trying to carm the EU regulators.
Open source systems don’t legally have to do anything they have done nothing legally wrong.
Microsot’s “implementation” of ODF is an attempt to sabotage ODF, rather than any attempt at interoperability.
There are perhaps eight or so different implementations of ODF right now, including two plugins for Microsoft Office and Microsoft’s own ODF for Microsoft Office.
All of these are interoperable, except Microsoft’s. Only Microsoft’s ODF files won’t open properly in any other applications.
If people were to choose ODF on this “Office format ballot” from Microsoft, not only would their files lose information on every save because of Microsoft’s incredibly inept implementation of ODF, but they would still be locked in to Microsoft Office in order to be able to read their own files into the future.
So how can one tell that this problem is an attempt by Microsoft to sabotage ODF, rather than a simple case of the ODF specification being vague? One can tell in a couple of ways: firstly because no other implementation of ODF has similar problems, and secondly, because there are **TESTS** available where one can verify if one’s application is producing correct ODF formats.
Microsoft Office ODF output fails these tests miserably.
I agree with the last two commentary. Nothing was obtain by goodwill and nothing will be.
I’d be very suspicious on Microsoft…After all,they still have a market share to protect
It’s time for a reality check.
How was that Yahoo progress again? Yahoo didn’t want a deal with Microsoft but it was forced through no matter how. That tells me that there’s no changes wrt Microsoft business practices.
ISO is now rendered virtually inoperative for relevant matters because none of the guys voting for the Microsoft formats are participating in votes. As soon as the deed was done they were gone. They were brought in by Microsoft and it was a serious breech of democratic principles.
No change.
Netbook market – leaning on the Oem’s and dumping licenses? Remember the successtory of WalMart’s linuxmachines? Sold out and no new stock?
No change.
The silverlight blob has licensing issues and if sticking to a sensible interpretation of the terms it is not in the free, but in the care of Novell.
Novell depends on Microsoft money and amongst other tings they are using the funds from Microsoft to dump prices for RedHat customers that makes the swap. So they attack Linux competitors with money from Microsoft rather than competing against Microsoft.
Ballmer’s statements following the recent report from Microsoft is just adding to the story. That tells me that NOTHING has changed apart from strategy and tactics.
So what is this friendliness really about?
- They need to make peace with EU because the war is expensive in terms of Linux influx. They had to give something, but a peaceoffering looks far better.
- They are in the middle of a gigantic product launch. They need their friendly image to be visible. Turn down abstracting noise.
- They need to relax the Linux/OpenSource communities. It’s easier to rob someones house if the inhabitants are deeply at sleep. Even better: Not at home.
I’m a bit puzzled about that. I keep wondering whether the new Microsoft friends within Linux/OpenSource is deep a sleep – or simply not at home. With friends like Microsoft you don’t need enemies. At all.
The Gnu/Linux/OpenSource combo stands perfectly on it’s own feet. With Microsoft, better get prepaired for the wheelchair.
+1
+1
Very funny post!
If I were to be silly and take what you are writing on here seriously, i’d probably even source some facts with references, but i’m not even going to bother, i’ll go it from memory.
Microsoft is in the middle of a campaign for the hearts and minds of users and developers out there, but I fear it is more to do with getting off the EU’s radar. Play nice for a little while, and maybe they’ll get off their backs.
Microsoft is all big on interopability at the moment. If I were to take their interopability seriously, I would expect that e.g (again from memory) the importation of odf spreadsheet formats should continue to retain formulas…especially when the standard is completely open and transperant. OpenOffice ended up supporting all the MS office formats by having to do it the hard way. Did Microsoft publish any standards regarding their file formats? Not from memory, and their formats were eventually able to be opened without too many difficulties in openoffice. Will Microsoft allow all functions to be saved using odf, or will it say, sorry, you’re not able to do that with the file format you have chosen, literally forcing people to their own standard (i’m not even going to go into ooxml).
“As much as the FSF would like to continue framing Microsoft as the bad guy in every situation, they aren’t.” hahaha, as if this is coming from the goodness of their hearts. Don’t be fooled, they’re only doing this because their hand is being forced, no more, no less.
“Matching Microsoft On Interoperability”
I think you will find that people are waiting for Microsoft to catch up with our efforts on interoperability, not the other way around.
Well, the support of ODF from MS I’ve seen so far has been horrible, so I can’t see their move working too well unless they make major improvements and/or ask for help. The MS add-ons which “provide” ODF support to previous versions of MS Office were quite poor, while the Sun-provided patches were excellent. OpenOffice.org support for .doc, on the other hand, is far better. So an OOo ballot might actually work, while MS seems incapable of living up to the suggestion.
Amazing! Are you serious? Nobody is framing anyone. The culprits do a great job at framing themselves. History speaks for itself. What possible evidence do you have that anything has changed? Are you actually convinced that something has changed here?
How does ODF work in current Microsoft products? Have you tried to use it? If or when you do you will be unpleasantly surprised.
Why do you think Microsoft is going about the things you mention? You think Microsoft really wants interoperability with competing products? Think again because there is nothing that suggests this.
I would have to agree with manny; This looks like a company trying to avoid law suits and/or make good with the EU. Believe me, it is nothing more and you should not count on anything in the way of interoperability with their products. —that is unless they are interoperating with other MS products.
Oh, and one more point… Free software advocates don’t need to be “cast into a better light”. They are not the ones requiring government oversight, getting fined, sued, and prosecuted.
anonymous – “Free software advocates don’t need to be “cast into a better light”. They are not the ones requiring government oversight, getting fined, sued, and prosecuted.” No, they’re the ones getting called “freetards” and getting made fun of by the New York Times:
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/23/open-source-backers-march-on-washington/
“Look out, lobbyists: Here come the open-source zealots.”
pfft
that’s just to generate traffic, nothing else..
Matching microsoft on interoperability? LOL, you have it backwards there, don’t you? While microsoft has been talking nice about interooerability and open source lately, talking nice does not equal actual results.
Lets’s not forget that linux has been bending over backwards for some years to achieve introperability in the face of microsoft resistance – and that for all their nice talk, microsoft still has a long, long way to go in order to match linux in terms of interoperability.
“unbiased” (by market share…) hmm …
ok, i do agree with lots of the stuff they are doing, but… lets remember the past (shall we?)
first of all, lawsuit after lawsuit (bad press and pressure from FSF and the european union) have been a continue battle for more than 5 years (probably 10) to get where we are today.
so, they have lost billions to those lawsuits (is that “good will” then?), i only see a company that’s avoiding some lawsuits…
and last but not least:
Microsoft Office 2010 will include a -”mandatory”- dialog for both OEMs and home users
keywords: mandatory
European Union (i don’t see this being offered world wide out of their hearts..)
just as we are making “some” progress for this “interoperability”, you want to stop pressuring them (?)
you domesticate a wolf, but let it loose and it will become wild again (even worst.. a monopolistic centric company), that’s there nature…
You are partially right. Microsoft is not as evil as their products are junk. Nothing to thank them for, as they are just defending their business.