Comments on: Ogg Theora and HTML 5 Support http://www.linuxloop.com/2009/07/04/ogg-theora-and-html-5-support/ Linux news, Ubuntu news, open-source software reviews, and Ubuntu tutorials Fri, 12 Mar 2010 15:32:17 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Robert http://www.linuxloop.com/2009/07/04/ogg-theora-and-html-5-support/comment-page-1/#comment-3209 Robert Fri, 10 Jul 2009 13:36:38 +0000 http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=2170#comment-3209 Yonah, you're missing the point. Theora is better because it's not encumbered by patents, and it's reasonably good. It's not state of the art, but it's usable, and the majority of stakeholders prefer patent unencumbered technology if they can choose. The real problem is that often they can't choose because patented codecs have become a de-facto standard. This is what we need to change, and then let the market decide. Yonah, you’re missing the point. Theora is better because it’s not encumbered by patents, and it’s reasonably good. It’s not state of the art, but it’s usable, and the majority of stakeholders prefer patent unencumbered technology if they can choose.

The real problem is that often they can’t choose because patented codecs have become a de-facto standard. This is what we need to change, and then let the market decide.

]]> By: InTheLoop http://www.linuxloop.com/2009/07/04/ogg-theora-and-html-5-support/comment-page-/#comment-3203 InTheLoop Wed, 08 Jul 2009 18:15:29 +0000 http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=2170#comment-3203 Yonah - As a website owner, your not the one who pays to use the commercial codec. In most cases, the browser vendor will have to pay. This is probably unrealistic for smaller web browsers, particularly those not supported by larger companies. As a plugin, I don't have a problem with commercial codecs. As part of an open standard, though, I don't think commercial codecs should be required. Yonah – As a website owner, your not the one who pays to use the commercial codec. In most cases, the browser vendor will have to pay. This is probably unrealistic for smaller web browsers, particularly those not supported by larger companies. As a plugin, I don’t have a problem with commercial codecs. As part of an open standard, though, I don’t think commercial codecs should be required.

]]> By: Yonah http://www.linuxloop.com/2009/07/04/ogg-theora-and-html-5-support/comment-page-1/#comment-3204 Yonah Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:53:15 +0000 http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=2170#comment-3204 I've used Ogg Vorbis since it was introduced. For end users, it was nice for one reason: it performed better than the current standard, MP3. However, Ogg Theora can't say the same when it comes to video. Don't forget that unlike Vorbis, Theora was not developed from scratch. It was derived from VP3, and old codec developed by On2 Technologies, then donated in 2001. A proprietary format that cost them money to develop which they then gave away for free when it was no longer useful to them. The devil is in the details in this case. Also bear in mind that VP6 is widely used now for Flash 8 based encodings. The same company recently announced VP7, designed to outshine H.264/AVC. Ask yourself, "If Theora is so awesome, why would On2 bother working on something else?" There you have the problem, and why Google is right. With Vorbis it was easy for a simple end user like to me compress my own files and see the difference in quality verses MP3. With Theora, I get files that really don't look any better than Xvid/Mpeg4 and neither can hold a candle to the jaw dropping quality I get from H.264. There is a popular website trumpeting the quality of Theora, but they compare it with H.263, a format standardized shortly after I got out of high school. That was well over 10 years ago. The zealots who've been pushing for Theora are pulling their hair out over "Freedom" and nothing else seems to matter. Sorry, I want freedom too. I want the freedom to use whatever video compression technology on my website, even if I have to pay for it. Odds are if I'm paying for it, it's because it meets my needs better. Google has checked their facts. No doubt they did even more extensive testing than I did and found Theora is a dud. Free, but a dud. What's ironic here is that many of Theora's biggest supporters aren't developers and have never had to pay any licensing fees for anything in their life. When it's your dollar going into the product, then YOU decide how you want to spend it. On that note, I feel the HTML 5 support for Video and Audio is a mistake. Such tasks are better suited for plug-ins. However, the standard is not even finished, so hopefully they will go back to the drawing board and come up with better solutions. I’ve used Ogg Vorbis since it was introduced. For end users, it was nice for one reason: it performed better than the current standard, MP3. However, Ogg Theora can’t say the same when it comes to video. Don’t forget that unlike Vorbis, Theora was not developed from scratch. It was derived from VP3, and old codec developed by On2 Technologies, then donated in 2001. A proprietary format that cost them money to develop which they then gave away for free when it was no longer useful to them. The devil is in the details in this case. Also bear in mind that VP6 is widely used now for Flash 8 based encodings. The same company recently announced VP7, designed to outshine H.264/AVC. Ask yourself, “If Theora is so awesome, why would On2 bother working on something else?”

There you have the problem, and why Google is right. With Vorbis it was easy for a simple end user like to me compress my own files and see the difference in quality verses MP3. With Theora, I get files that really don’t look any better than Xvid/Mpeg4 and neither can hold a candle to the jaw dropping quality I get from H.264. There is a popular website trumpeting the quality of Theora, but they compare it with H.263, a format standardized shortly after I got out of high school. That was well over 10 years ago. The zealots who’ve been pushing for Theora are pulling their hair out over “Freedom” and nothing else seems to matter. Sorry, I want freedom too. I want the freedom to use whatever video compression technology on my website, even if I have to pay for it. Odds are if I’m paying for it, it’s because it meets my needs better.

Google has checked their facts. No doubt they did even more extensive testing than I did and found Theora is a dud. Free, but a dud. What’s ironic here is that many of Theora’s biggest supporters aren’t developers and have never had to pay any licensing fees for anything in their life. When it’s your dollar going into the product, then YOU decide how you want to spend it.

On that note, I feel the HTML 5 support for Video and Audio is a mistake. Such tasks are better suited for plug-ins. However, the standard is not even finished, so hopefully they will go back to the drawing board and come up with better solutions.

]]> By: Supportive http://www.linuxloop.com/2009/07/04/ogg-theora-and-html-5-support/comment-page-1/#comment-3206 Supportive Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:09:59 +0000 http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=2170#comment-3206 I am glad HTML 5 will support Ogg Theora. Let's hope that Theora gets more recognition it deserves in the future. Oh, and I am fully agree with you: "Those who said Linux sucks are not nice, ignorant, and ultimately wrong!" :-) I am glad HTML 5 will support Ogg Theora. Let’s hope that Theora gets more recognition it deserves in the future. Oh, and I am fully agree with you: “Those who said Linux sucks are not nice, ignorant, and ultimately wrong!” :-)

]]> By: jhgfd http://www.linuxloop.com/2009/07/04/ogg-theora-and-html-5-support/comment-page-1/#comment-3205 jhgfd Mon, 06 Jul 2009 12:10:44 +0000 http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=2170#comment-3205 Apple wants to do H.264 because Apple HAS PATENTS on that! Searched about ogg and Google's Chrome on the web, it seems that Google's Chrome will support ogg: Another step towards an open web -- Google's Chrome browser is going to support Theora video natively with the HTML5 video tag: http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/05/google-chrome-3-adds-html5.html http://codereview.chromium.org/115625/diff/1/2 Apple wants to do H.264 because Apple HAS PATENTS on that!

Searched about ogg and Google’s Chrome on the web,
it seems that Google’s Chrome will support ogg:

Another step towards an open web — Google’s Chrome browser is going
to support Theora video natively with the HTML5 video tag:
http://blog.internetnews.com/skerner/2009/05/google-chrome-3-adds-html5.html
http://codereview.chromium.org/115625/diff/1/2

]]> By: manny http://www.linuxloop.com/2009/07/04/ogg-theora-and-html-5-support/comment-page-1/#comment-3207 manny Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:24:21 +0000 http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=2170#comment-3207 safari may actually be the one affected here and loose even more users... even M$ might have support for it by the time ie9 is out oh n google should really check their facts, make more tests and start contributing back some improvements safari may actually be the one affected here and loose even more users…

even M$ might have support for it by the time ie9 is out

oh n google should really check their facts, make more tests and start contributing back some improvements

]]> By: manny http://www.linuxloop.com/2009/07/04/ogg-theora-and-html-5-support/comment-page-1/#comment-3208 manny Sun, 05 Jul 2009 07:13:40 +0000 http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=2170#comment-3208 +1 people couldn't care less what apple thinks +1

people couldn’t care less what apple thinks

]]>