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	<title>Comments on: Time For Ubuntu To Move To Stability</title>
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	<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/</link>
	<description>Linux news, Ubuntu news, open-source software reviews, and Ubuntu tutorials</description>
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		<title>By: James -ner</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-2013</link>
		<dc:creator>James -ner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 00:26:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-2013</guid>
		<description>There are upgrades for new hardware on LTS releases. That&#039;s what Ubuntu Dapper 6.06.2 was for. New applications introduce new bugs and security holes because of the new features that are added to the applications. Speaking of new features and new programs, there are add-ons for Firefox 3 that add some of the functionality that&#039;s present in Firefox 3.1. And for OpenOffice.org 2.4 you can easily add some of 3.0&#039;s functionality. Search for it, Google is your friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are upgrades for new hardware on LTS releases. That&#8217;s what Ubuntu Dapper 6.06.2 was for. New applications introduce new bugs and security holes because of the new features that are added to the applications. Speaking of new features and new programs, there are add-ons for Firefox 3 that add some of the functionality that&#8217;s present in Firefox 3.1. And for OpenOffice.org 2.4 you can easily add some of 3.0&#8217;s functionality. Search for it, Google is your friend.</p>
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		<title>By: ignacio</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-2019</link>
		<dc:creator>ignacio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Dec 2008 01:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-2019</guid>
		<description>Wait, that sounds surprisingly similar to RHEL et alia. No, scratch that. That sounds *exactly* like them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait, that sounds surprisingly similar to RHEL et alia. No, scratch that. That sounds *exactly* like them.</p>
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		<title>By: NeoTaoistTechnoPagan</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-1980</link>
		<dc:creator>NeoTaoistTechnoPagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 21:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-1980</guid>
		<description>@powerplant

Odd, mine works just fine. If you&#039;re having issues then CHOOSE to get involved and make it better.

Yet another word there: &quot;quitcherbitchen&quot;

If you do *nothing* but complain (like many Vista users) then well, it&#039;s your loss. At least with Linux the end-user has the power to get involved in development.

I know Linux isn&#039;t perfect for everyone, I never said it was. It&#039;s definitely NOT Windows OR OSx, and for that I&#039;m thankful. Linux, FOR ME, does what I want - Windows did not.

Not trying to be evangelistic or anything, yes a bit defensive.

When taking to MS Admins bashing Linux, all I keep hearing in the back of my mind is the Borg Queen : &quot;Small words from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn&#039;t understand.&quot;

We are Linux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@powerplant</p>
<p>Odd, mine works just fine. If you&#8217;re having issues then CHOOSE to get involved and make it better.</p>
<p>Yet another word there: &#8220;quitcherbitchen&#8221;</p>
<p>If you do *nothing* but complain (like many Vista users) then well, it&#8217;s your loss. At least with Linux the end-user has the power to get involved in development.</p>
<p>I know Linux isn&#8217;t perfect for everyone, I never said it was. It&#8217;s definitely NOT Windows OR OSx, and for that I&#8217;m thankful. Linux, FOR ME, does what I want &#8211; Windows did not.</p>
<p>Not trying to be evangelistic or anything, yes a bit defensive.</p>
<p>When taking to MS Admins bashing Linux, all I keep hearing in the back of my mind is the Borg Queen : &#8220;Small words from a small being, trying to attack what it doesn&#8217;t understand.&#8221;</p>
<p>We are Linux.</p>
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		<title>By: swiftnet</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-2018</link>
		<dc:creator>swiftnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 18:01:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-2018</guid>
		<description>Windows, OSX, Gnome, KDE, E17, etc all occasionally crash, updates sometime kill another app, etc, etc.
I work with just about all desktops. Windows XP sometimes crashes, sometimes apps just quit. Windows Vista sometimes ties up the system for no reason, apps just quit, OS fails to boot until 20 minutes later. OSX loves to display the damned pinwheel sometimes for 5 minutes at a time, apps sometimes quietly quit, etc. I get the same thing on my Linux systems. I prefer using Linux/E17, as I find it more stable than the alternatives. This will change I&#039;m sure, but my point is that a Desktop is never going to be both rock steady and current. If you want stability then the OS and apps will be dated, even then things may still go awry....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Windows, OSX, Gnome, KDE, E17, etc all occasionally crash, updates sometime kill another app, etc, etc.<br />
I work with just about all desktops. Windows XP sometimes crashes, sometimes apps just quit. Windows Vista sometimes ties up the system for no reason, apps just quit, OS fails to boot until 20 minutes later. OSX loves to display the damned pinwheel sometimes for 5 minutes at a time, apps sometimes quietly quit, etc. I get the same thing on my Linux systems. I prefer using Linux/E17, as I find it more stable than the alternatives. This will change I&#8217;m sure, but my point is that a Desktop is never going to be both rock steady and current. If you want stability then the OS and apps will be dated, even then things may still go awry&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: powerplant</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-2017</link>
		<dc:creator>powerplant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 11:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-2017</guid>
		<description>&quot;The main reason there are so many different distributions is simply this: CHOICE&quot;

Ok. So where is the choice of a desktop distribution that works? It doesn&#039;t exist.

Oh, I see that you brought up the supercomputers argument. Yep, that must make desktop Linux great. You forgot to say that Google runs Linux, by the way. That will convince everyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The main reason there are so many different distributions is simply this: CHOICE&#8221;</p>
<p>Ok. So where is the choice of a desktop distribution that works? It doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
<p>Oh, I see that you brought up the supercomputers argument. Yep, that must make desktop Linux great. You forgot to say that Google runs Linux, by the way. That will convince everyone.</p>
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		<title>By: alan</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-2016</link>
		<dc:creator>alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 06:01:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-2016</guid>
		<description>It boggles my mind why you moderate comments, but let trolls post so much here.  I guess you&#039;re more forgiving than me about stupid people.

I think all the &quot;Quit&#039;cher whining, it&#039;s just fine as it is!&quot; and &quot;use ${DISTRO} it does what you want&quot; comments miss the point.  Most distros have been operating on the model of things all rolling forward together with every release.  What most people *want* is a stable base with update-able apps.  Backports are one way around this, but for reasons I can&#039;t grasp neither Debian or Ubuntu have a backports repo that keeps up with most of the significant packages (*cough* OpenOffice? *cough*).  Sometimes it&#039;s lack of manpower, sometimes dependency constraints in shared libraries, sometimes bugs that can&#039;t be fixed without major changes to the system.

A proposed solution I&#039;m hearing more about these days is to offer statically linked apps in their own namespace, much like what Nix and gobolinux do.  I have not had a chance to check out how those things are implemented, but it may be a solution for the future.

Most likely such a solution would have to come from the community first, though.  Such a scenario, if implemented well, could allow a user to stick to LTS and have updated apps for the full LTS period.  Or Debian stable, for that matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It boggles my mind why you moderate comments, but let trolls post so much here.  I guess you&#8217;re more forgiving than me about stupid people.</p>
<p>I think all the &#8220;Quit&#8217;cher whining, it&#8217;s just fine as it is!&#8221; and &#8220;use ${DISTRO} it does what you want&#8221; comments miss the point.  Most distros have been operating on the model of things all rolling forward together with every release.  What most people *want* is a stable base with update-able apps.  Backports are one way around this, but for reasons I can&#8217;t grasp neither Debian or Ubuntu have a backports repo that keeps up with most of the significant packages (*cough* OpenOffice? *cough*).  Sometimes it&#8217;s lack of manpower, sometimes dependency constraints in shared libraries, sometimes bugs that can&#8217;t be fixed without major changes to the system.</p>
<p>A proposed solution I&#8217;m hearing more about these days is to offer statically linked apps in their own namespace, much like what Nix and gobolinux do.  I have not had a chance to check out how those things are implemented, but it may be a solution for the future.</p>
<p>Most likely such a solution would have to come from the community first, though.  Such a scenario, if implemented well, could allow a user to stick to LTS and have updated apps for the full LTS period.  Or Debian stable, for that matter.</p>
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		<title>By: jg</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-2015</link>
		<dc:creator>jg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 03:13:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-2015</guid>
		<description>The vast majority of posts here that describe how to achieve a &quot;stable Ubuntu&quot; are either totally unachieveable (and undoubtably submitted by people who aren&#039;t programmers nor package maintainers), or are describing Debian Stable. I realize that most Ubuntu users are newbies who do not know much about the &quot;Linux world&quot;, but I would hope by now that they&#039;ve been made aware that Ubuntu is literally a fork of an unstable version of Debian. Use Debian Stable if you want a &quot;stable Ubuntu&quot;. Debian has what Ubuntu lacks (and never will have).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The vast majority of posts here that describe how to achieve a &#8220;stable Ubuntu&#8221; are either totally unachieveable (and undoubtably submitted by people who aren&#8217;t programmers nor package maintainers), or are describing Debian Stable. I realize that most Ubuntu users are newbies who do not know much about the &#8220;Linux world&#8221;, but I would hope by now that they&#8217;ve been made aware that Ubuntu is literally a fork of an unstable version of Debian. Use Debian Stable if you want a &#8220;stable Ubuntu&#8221;. Debian has what Ubuntu lacks (and never will have).</p>
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		<title>By: NeoTaoistTechnoPagan</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-2014</link>
		<dc:creator>NeoTaoistTechnoPagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Dec 2008 01:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-2014</guid>
		<description>Love the FUD - (nice Trolls, go play with yourselves now..)

*sigh* Ok - here it is everyone....

The main reason there are so many different distributions is simply this: CHOICE

You have other choices, yes - Windows and OSx, sure.
(BTW, OSx is just BSD with some polishing that Apple doesn&#039;t give back, nice of them there eh? But then again the BSD license says they don&#039;t have to. WTG GPL!)

All of the whining and poo-poo-ing over this distro is better than that one or Linux isn&#039;t as good as Windows means absolutely zilch at the end of the day - check this out. How many SUPERCOMPUTERS in the world exist? How many of them run Windows? Google it people.

I use *many* different distros, each with their own advantages and drawbacks. Gentoo, Ubuntu, Debian, Centos(SME-Server), IPCop, Untangle, and (*gasp*) Windows. At the end of the day I can safely say the ones I do not have to worry about are the non-MS ones. Updates? Wait for MS to fix a problem or (OMG) do it myself?

The only linux distro that I ever have any issues with when updating is the Gentoo one, but then again I am running the bleeding-edge (testing) branch of amd-64, so I *expect* things to break now and again. I check the forums and mailing lists and viola! Problems solved!

I can understand the author&#039;s original point (whine?) somewhat, but having waited until Ubuntu 8.10 came out to move to 8.04 from 7.10 myself, I don&#039;t really care.

The only &quot;cost&quot; in using Linux (any version) is the time you take to teach yourself to do something new, like the first fish that decided to try land instead of water. Some may die, yes - and many distros have done just that. The ones that survive however, grow even stronger with their communities behind them. Ubuntu is unstoppable now, not just because some guy with deep pockets keeps dumping $$$ into Canonical, but I&#039;m sure that helps. Look at other versions that started as an idea and nothing more.

Again, it&#039;s all about choice. Keep churning that FUD out.
It rhymes with &#039;cud&#039;, just like a cow to keep chewing it and spewing a bunch of crap.

IMNSHO, Windows really bites big moose wooter.

NTTP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Love the FUD &#8211; (nice Trolls, go play with yourselves now..)</p>
<p>*sigh* Ok &#8211; here it is everyone&#8230;.</p>
<p>The main reason there are so many different distributions is simply this: CHOICE</p>
<p>You have other choices, yes &#8211; Windows and OSx, sure.<br />
(BTW, OSx is just BSD with some polishing that Apple doesn&#8217;t give back, nice of them there eh? But then again the BSD license says they don&#8217;t have to. WTG GPL!)</p>
<p>All of the whining and poo-poo-ing over this distro is better than that one or Linux isn&#8217;t as good as Windows means absolutely zilch at the end of the day &#8211; check this out. How many SUPERCOMPUTERS in the world exist? How many of them run Windows? Google it people.</p>
<p>I use *many* different distros, each with their own advantages and drawbacks. Gentoo, Ubuntu, Debian, Centos(SME-Server), IPCop, Untangle, and (*gasp*) Windows. At the end of the day I can safely say the ones I do not have to worry about are the non-MS ones. Updates? Wait for MS to fix a problem or (OMG) do it myself?</p>
<p>The only linux distro that I ever have any issues with when updating is the Gentoo one, but then again I am running the bleeding-edge (testing) branch of amd-64, so I *expect* things to break now and again. I check the forums and mailing lists and viola! Problems solved!</p>
<p>I can understand the author&#8217;s original point (whine?) somewhat, but having waited until Ubuntu 8.10 came out to move to 8.04 from 7.10 myself, I don&#8217;t really care.</p>
<p>The only &#8220;cost&#8221; in using Linux (any version) is the time you take to teach yourself to do something new, like the first fish that decided to try land instead of water. Some may die, yes &#8211; and many distros have done just that. The ones that survive however, grow even stronger with their communities behind them. Ubuntu is unstoppable now, not just because some guy with deep pockets keeps dumping $$$ into Canonical, but I&#8217;m sure that helps. Look at other versions that started as an idea and nothing more.</p>
<p>Again, it&#8217;s all about choice. Keep churning that FUD out.<br />
It rhymes with &#8216;cud&#8217;, just like a cow to keep chewing it and spewing a bunch of crap.</p>
<p>IMNSHO, Windows really bites big moose wooter.</p>
<p>NTTP</p>
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		<title>By: 6am</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-2012</link>
		<dc:creator>6am</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 13:07:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-2012</guid>
		<description>Congratulations, you have already found that even the most basic things don&#039;t work sanely in desktop Linuxland. Now you can wake up, switch to something else and save yourself a lot of headaches, or fool yourself and wait for things to improve. Hint: they won&#039;t. Ever.

Your choice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congratulations, you have already found that even the most basic things don&#8217;t work sanely in desktop Linuxland. Now you can wake up, switch to something else and save yourself a lot of headaches, or fool yourself and wait for things to improve. Hint: they won&#8217;t. Ever.</p>
<p>Your choice.</p>
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		<title>By: jt</title>
		<link>http://www.linuxloop.com/2008/12/21/time-for-ubuntu-to-move-to-stability/comment-page-1/#comment-1976</link>
		<dc:creator>jt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 01:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.linuxloop.com/news/?p=1178#comment-1976</guid>
		<description>Oh, yeah, I want to add to what someone said about needing to upgrade Ubuntu. Last month I burned the latest release to try it on a 2 year-old computer and I found Ubuntu&#039;s live CD made it choke to a complete halt.

What the hell?! The thing probably takes up 2x as many resource as a lowly Windows XP (in fact, I don&#039;t really know since I don&#039;t use Windows).

Really, really odd. It&#039;s ok for Linux to be cutting edge but what exactly s Ubuntu competing with? Top-of-the-line desktops? Really? Is that how Linux is supposed to replace Windows?

I tried to install PC-BSD on that machine but there were hardware problems. I find it kinda sad that Linux really is dominating the open source scene. I don&#039;t think it&#039;s a good a product as the BSDs (security-wise, OpenBSD is solid gold, performance-wise, FreeBSD 7 beats Linux).

I don&#039;t mean to bash, but I really want people to know what _really_ happens. It&#039;s not like I&#039;m hostile to Linux, but the fact is there&#039;s a lor of professional PR from the industry and the truth is what they really want to do is do  kill Sun Microsystems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, yeah, I want to add to what someone said about needing to upgrade Ubuntu. Last month I burned the latest release to try it on a 2 year-old computer and I found Ubuntu&#8217;s live CD made it choke to a complete halt.</p>
<p>What the hell?! The thing probably takes up 2x as many resource as a lowly Windows XP (in fact, I don&#8217;t really know since I don&#8217;t use Windows).</p>
<p>Really, really odd. It&#8217;s ok for Linux to be cutting edge but what exactly s Ubuntu competing with? Top-of-the-line desktops? Really? Is that how Linux is supposed to replace Windows?</p>
<p>I tried to install PC-BSD on that machine but there were hardware problems. I find it kinda sad that Linux really is dominating the open source scene. I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a good a product as the BSDs (security-wise, OpenBSD is solid gold, performance-wise, FreeBSD 7 beats Linux).</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mean to bash, but I really want people to know what _really_ happens. It&#8217;s not like I&#8217;m hostile to Linux, but the fact is there&#8217;s a lor of professional PR from the industry and the truth is what they really want to do is do  kill Sun Microsystems.</p>
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